Palestinian's in Gaza now kill each other with the same rage and hatred they have against the Jews.
In Iraq ,Moslem suicide killers enter fellow Molsems Mosques and blow themselves up surrounded by innocent children.
The Satanic and evil roots of Islam are clear here but the blind ,damned Nation's ignore the truth and continues to pressure Israel to surrender to this evil force from hell.
This ongoing bloodlust and satanic carnage between moslems in Iraq has spread to Gaza ,Pakistan,Afghanistan and once tranquil Lebanon.
This after the liberation of Iraq by false peacemaker and divider of Israel ,President Bush and billions of U.S. dollars wasted there on their failed babel 2 NWO venture.
Not even $ can thwart God's judgments.
After the Second Lebanon war led by Lebanon's ally,Hezbollah against Israel
we see Lebanon fracturing into civil strife once again.
Shiite vs. Sunni Moslem
The connection between all of them is God's judgment on all who contend with His people Israel.
This judgment will spread to every nation now aligned against Israel across the world including the U.S.
Watch for mexican vs black vs white ,vs rich vs poor vs democrat vs rebublican ,pacifist vs pro-war ,religious vs religious vs non religious vs athiests and on and on.
Here is one of many reasons why divisions are growing ;
"But thus saith the LORD, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered:
for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children.
And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob." Isaiah 49:25
Awake, awake!
Put on your strength, O Zion;
Put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city!
For the uncircumcised and the unclean Shall no longer come to you.
Shake yourself from the dust, arise; Sit down, O Jerusalem!
Loose yourself from the bonds of your neck, O captive daughter of Zion!
For thus says the Lord:"You have sold yourselves for nothing,
And you shall be redeemed without money For thus says the Lord God:
"My people went down at first Into Egypt to dwell there;
Then the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.
Now therefore, what have I here," says the Lord, "That My people are taken away for nothing? Those who rule over them *Make them wail," says the Lord,
"And My name is blasphemed continually every day.
Therefore My people shall know My name; Therefore they shall know in that day
That I am He who speaks: 'Behold, it is I.'
" How beautiful upon the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news,Who proclaims peace, Who brings glad tidings of good things, Who proclaims salvation,
Who says to Zion, "Your God reigns!" Your watchmen shall lift up their voices,
With their voices they shall sing together; For they shall see eye to eye When the Lord brings back Zion.
Break forth into joy, sing together, You waste places of Jerusalem! For the Lord has comforted His people,He has redeemed Jerusalem. The Lord has made bare His holy arm In the eyes of all the nations; And all the ends of the earth shall see The salvation of our God.
Isaiah 52
Yet the Jews and American's are killing the Moslems with that very same rage. All because of the insanity of the belief that the Jews are "still" God's chosen(?), the "seed of Abraham, and think they still have a right to the land that was taken from them, by God, and prophecied by Jesus. I guess Jesus didn't mean what He said, and if He did, the majority of Christian really don't believe Him. And when men, women and children are blown up it's justified by the right-wing Christians. I wonder where in the New Testament this teaching can be found?
ReplyDeleteAfraid to leave your name ?
ReplyDeleteJesus said He would fight for and defeat Israel's enemies.
The Lamb of God is the Lion of Judah.
Greedy and arrogant moslems won't allow the outnumbered Jews to live on a tiny sliver of land.
They have to claim and have it all.
They will inheret hell.
Escape this cult of death while you can
Moslem kill each other whch reveal satan is the allah they follow.
The God of Israel is judging Islam and wickedness.AMERICA WILL NOT SURVIVE AS ISLAM WILLN OT SURVIVE
marcel
Afraid to leave my name? Not at all, only I do not have an account here so I'll leave mine at the end.
ReplyDeleteI am a born from above Christian for many years now but no longer believe the dreadful theology of Israel still being God's chosen. I am God's chosen according to the New Testament by my faith, like Abraham. Those who are of Christ "are called, and chosen, and faithful." Not according to the flesh but of faith. "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29) What promise? All of the promises given to Abraham.
Jesus said, "Therefore I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to another nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
Matthew 21:43
Nowhere does Jesus or any of the apostles say that the Jews will get any other chance other than to believe in Jesus for their salvation. When He comes back at His return it is for judgement, not compassion on Israel of the flesh. He had compassions for them at the cross, which to this day they still mock.
I too look forward to the Lord's return, but I will not support Israel's killing machine anymore than I will support the Arabs or America's slaughtering of people everywhere for that matter. Can you show me the verse that says I am to support and build up that which God has already destroyed? Should I fight against Jesus since He was the one who said their nation was to be left desolate? With no mention of the Jews being allowed back into the land again? Should I trust in the writings and predictions of adulterer's Lindsey(4 wives) and Hagee(2 wives). Me, I'll trust in the words of my Savior Jesus regardless of how many of those who claim to be Christians really do not believe Jesus' words.
The love affair Christians have with those who hate Jesus and His words to this day and their hate towards our Arab brothers truly shows ones colors. People need to read the Sermon on the Mount again and see where they are wrong.
By the way, the cult of death for which you want me to escape already has your full support since you have no problem with killing people in Iraq and/or Israel even though it goes completely against Jesus to not hate nor to do no harm to anyone. I looked at some of the hateful websites for which you link to. How could any Christian want to be a part of that stuff.
Stephen Patrick
Stephen,
ReplyDeleteYou have to throw away more than half your bible or twist the truth out of it to come to the place your delusion has led you.
I wonder who has influenced you away from the truth ?
Has your evil heart blinded you to what God is doing related to His everlasting covenant with Israel.
I understand God's unfailing love and your god throws people in the trash. the same pride of moslems and the apostate christian church blinds you.
See verse 22 below to understand where your pride will lead you.
Jeremiah 51 17-24 reveals that Israel is God's instrument for judgment on a wicked world.
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 "Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"?* 4 But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal."* 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
"God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day."*
9 And David says:
"Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always."*
Israel's Rejection Not Final
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, *goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be *saved, as it is written:
"The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins."*
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 "For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?"*
35 "Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?"*
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
"For surely I will command,
And will sift the house of Israel among all nations,
As grain is sifted in a sieve;
Yet not the smallest grain shall fall to the ground.
10 All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword,
Who say, 'The calamity shall not overtake nor confront us.'
Israel Will Be Restored
(cf. Acts 15:16, 17)
11 "On that day I will raise up
The *tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
And repair its damages;
I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,*
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,"
Says the Lord who does this thing.
13 "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord,
"When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
And all the hills shall flow with it.
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,"
Says the Lord your God.
Amos 9
marcel
Marcel,
ReplyDeleteMy God is the very one that inspired Peter to write "Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people...Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God" (I Peter 2: 9,10). He was speaking to Christians, both Jew and Gentile.
You wrote "I understand God's unfailing love and your god throws people in the trash."
The small "g" for "my god" obviously shows you believe this to be a salvation issue, and I do not believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob if I do not believe in your version of "end time" events.
Either Jesus is to be believed when He said that "many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Or we can disobey Paul's command to "Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14)
I see no reprieve in the words of Jesus anywhere that the Jews will be welcomed back until they turn in repentance and faith in Jesus Christ now.
In Romans 9:6-7 Paul wrote . . ."Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Don't you understand that just because one makes a claim to being "children of Abraham" does not make them "of Israel?" John the Baptist said that God could make a child of Abraham out of a stone, thereby eliminating race or lineage as an issue for who happens to be a child of Abraham. Children of the "flesh" are not the children of God. The children of the promise are.
Paul also says that Israel already "has" obtained that which he seeketh, but only the election has obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
The 7000 who did not bow down to Baal was given by Paul as an example for the remnant of Israel who did get saved at Pentecost and the thousands who came to faith after Peter's preaching. They were of the "true Israel." The rest were blinded. When you got saved you became part of Israel, the chosen. Not after the flesh, but after the spirit.
There are not two covenants, one for the Jews and one for the Church. How can one believe in the New Covenant and still believe that there are more covenants to be fulfilled? To think that the so-called physical descendants of Abraham are God's chosen people after Jesus the Messiah has come and fulfilled all of the Old Covenant types and shadows is to abrogate the New Covenant itself and replace it with a return to the types and shadows that it has replaced. Now that borders on heresy.
Thank you for quoting Amos 9. It was the apostle James in Acts:15 who declared that prophecy was fulfilled in Christ by bringing the Gentiles the gospel. Peter, Paul, Barnabas, all agreed too. You look for a future physical fulfillment, yet James said that the words of Amos were already fulfilled spiritually in the acceptance of the Gentiles into the Church. The tabernacle of David was built again and Jesus does in fact sit on that throne in heaven today. That is the answer the apostles were given under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. There is no other fulfillment to happen with Amos 9 in the future. That is unless the apostles were wrong.
The "apple of the Lord's eye" happens to be those who, by faith, believe in the promises fulfilled in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, not a people that continue to this day believe that "we are the children of Abraham", yet reject that which Abraham looked forward to. (John 8:56)
Hebrews18-24 says. . . "For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that no word more should be spoken unto them;for they could not endure that which was enjoined, If even a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned;and so fearful was the appearance, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake: but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaketh better than that of Abel."
It happened in the already in heaven. The fulfillment of the promises were to spiritual Israel, not of the flesh.
""It happened in the already in heaven. The fulfillment of the promises were to spiritual Israel, not of the flesh.""
ReplyDeleteSAY'S YOU ? You're playing God and deciding on what He said.
That is alway's fatal ,physically and spiritually
I can see that you have removed Romans 11 from your bible.
No comment on it from you because you do not deal in the truth ,just in what fits your self centered religion that fits your evident bias.
You have to believe this lie from the pit of hell to make your religion fit into your decieved mind.
you are decieved and the pride of your heart leads you to destruction.The fulfillment is with natural Israel.
Be careful ,this is how many reprobates got their start.
The Jesus you claim to follow IS,IS IS Jewish and HE RETURNS TO JERUSALEM,JERUSALEM,JERUSALEM and not Rome !!!!
How does this fir into your skewered ungodly religious catholic theology ?
marcel
Hi Marcel,
ReplyDeleteI was brought up Catholic, but about 25 years ago after being confronted with my sin the Lord chose to save me, not because I was a German/Irish descendent, but because I repented and believed the Gospel, the very same way anybody who has ever walked this planet has been saved or ever will be saved. And I would have nothing to do with the Catholic Church again.
No, Romans 11 is still in my Bible. I wouldn't dare take it out of my Bible, or take away from it's meaning, nor add to it like the command in Revelation says. It is too bad that you have chosen to do both. You take away the completed work of Jesus, His fulfilling of the promises to Abraham and his seed and you say He didn't do it all because the Jews haven't gotten all saved yet. And you add to the Bible a return to the types and shadows which were fulfilled by our Lord at the cross and resurrection.
I really didn't think I would need to provide commentary on Romans 11 since in my previous response the scripture is rather clear as to who, or what Israel is chosen. I apoligize for the length, but this is the only way I was able to put this in perspective for you.
Romans 11:1 I say then,God has not rejected His
people,has He? May it never be! For I too am an
Israelite,a descendant of Abraham,of the tribe of
Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people
whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the
Scripture says in the passage about Elijah,how he
pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Lord,THEY
HAVE KILLED THY PROPHETS,THEY HAVE
TORN DOWN THINE ALTARS,AND I ALONE
AM LEFT,AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY
LIFE.”4 But what is the divine response to him?
“I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND
MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO
BAAL.”5 In the same way then,there has also
come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. 6 But if it is by grace,it is no longer on the basis of works,otherwise grace is no longer grace. 7 What then? That which Israel is seeking for,it has not obtained,but those who were chosen obtained it,and the rest were hardened;
This passage is not saying that God has kept
his promise to physical descendantsof Israel. It is
saying that God has kept his promise to the rem-
nant of Israel who are true believers. Israel as a
national entity did not obtain God’s promises,but
chosen individuals within that nation did. So
God’s promise was never to the physical many but
to the faithful few. The physical many simply ben-
efited from being outwardly aligned with the
faithful few. The people who God is not rejecting
in this passage are the remnant believers. The rest
are hardened and do not receive the promise.
Rom 11:11 I say then,they did not stumble so as
to fall,did they? May it never be! But by their
transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles,to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression be riches for the world and their failure be riches for the Gentiles,how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles,I magnify my ministry,14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection be the reconciliation of the world,what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 And if the first piece of dough be holy,the lump is also; and if the root be holy,the branches are too. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off,and you,being a wild olive,were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant,remember that it is not you who
supports the root,but the root supports you. 19 You will say then,“Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”20 Quite right,they were broken off for their unbelief,but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited,but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches,neither will He spare you. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell,severity,but to you, God’s kindness,if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also,if they do not continue in their unbelief,will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a
wild olive tree,and were grafted contrary to nature
into a cultivated olive tree,how much more shall
these who are the natural branches be grafted into
their own olive tree?
The root of the tree is true Israel of Promise. And
true Israel of Promise is not physical Israel, the
land or the natural descendants. True Israel is simply the term for God’s People—whoever they are. The natural branches represent physical descendants of Israel,while the wild olive branches represent Gentiles who believe. The conditional
nature is emphasized here, as Paul says that the
Jews were cut off because of their unbelief. Faith
is the root, not physical descendency. Jews are
rejected by God and cut off for disobeying the
covenant. They are grafted back in by faith,just as
Gentiles are grafted on by faith. A Jew gets saved,
becomes God’s chosen,the same way as a Gentile
does:through faith in Christ,not physical descen-
dency. No physical or geopolitical Israel is here in
mind. True Israel is the faithful, not the physical.
Always was,always is,always will be.
The following conclusion of the passage has,
in the eyes of some,reinforced that God still has
a special plan for physical Israel:
Romans 11:25 For I do not want you,brethren,to be uninformed of this mystery,lest you be wise in
your own estimation,that a partial hardening has
happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and thus all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,“THE DELIVERER WILL
COME FROM ZION,HE WILL REMOVE
UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”27 “AND
THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,WHEN
I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”28 From the stand-
point of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God,but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient,in order that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all.
Even if one takes this to be a reference to phys-
ical Israel,the context of the whole passage neces-
sitates that God will show his electing mercy on
the physical Jew the same way He does on the
Gentile—through faith in Christ, not through an
Old Covenant that is obsolete. God may very well
cause a major revival of faith in the Jewish com-
munity in the future, but he will not do it apart
from faith in Christ. He will not reinstitute cere-
monial laws of Jewish separation and with it,
physical land promise and Temple sacrifice,
because these have already been fulfilled in Christ
and there is no longer Jew or Gentile separation in
Christ. Once the old is gone, it is gone forever.
There is no returning.
Heb 8:13 When He said,“A new covenant,”He
has made the first obsolete.” If this passage means that God will save a mass of Jews in the future, He will do it through faith in Jesus Christ, not through a land grab which has been fulfilled already in Christ, or returning to an obsolete understanding of physical land promise and national separation. To return to a nationalistic prejudice would be to negate the entire internationalism of the New Covenant. But in point of fact, I do not believe that this future revival of ethnic Israel is what the passage is teaching anyway. Paul is simply explaining the nature of the Gospel under the New Covenant. Paul again differentiates between ethnic Israel and true Israel of faith:
Rom 11:1 I say then,God has not rejected His
people,has He? May it never be! For I too am an
Israelite,a descendant of Abraham,of the tribe of
Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected His people
whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the
Scripture says in the passage about Elijah,how he
pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Lord,THEY
HAVE KILLED THY PROPHETS,THEY HAVE
TORN DOWN THINE ALTARS,AND I ALONE
AM LEFT,AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY
LIFE.”4 But what is the divine response to him?
“I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND
MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO
BAAL.”5 In the same way then,there has also
come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice [“election”]. 6 But if it is by grace,it is no longer on the basis of works,oth- erwise grace is no longer grace. 7 What then? That which Israel is seeking for,it has not obtained,but those who were chosen [“elect”] obtained it,and the rest were hardened;
Paul says that God does not reject his people,
Israel, but then he defines just exactly whothose
people are, and they are not the ethnic descen-
dants, but rather those within ethnic Israel who
are true believers! The remnantare true Israel who
God does not reject. The remnant are the “elect”
or “chosen”faithful. Ethnic descendency is the
outward vehicle by which God created the line for
Messiah to come, but only the elect within that
covenanted group obtain salvation by God’s
grace. The rest are hardenedand do not receive it.
So when Paul writes about the root and the
branches with the branches being broken off
because of unbelief,he is saying that faithless eth-
nic Israel rejects Messiah so that God can offer the
Gentiles [nations] the same faith salvation that
truefaithful Israelites had.
Rom 11:25 a partial hardening has happened to
Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles [“nations”]
has come in [“enters”]; and thus all Israel will be
saved; just as it is written,“THE DELIVERER
WILL COME FROM ZION,HE WILL REMOVE
UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”27 “AND
THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,WHEN
I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”28 From the stand-
point of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice [“election”] they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Paul is referring to true Israel (of faith), both
Jew and Gentile, when he writes, “and thus [‘in
this way’] all Israel will be saved.”He is not say-
ing that all ethnic Israel will be saved after God
finishes saving all the Gentiles He wants. He is
saying that the New Covenant is the fullness of
the nations, and that “in this way”both Jew and
Gentile will be saved by faith. The Deliverer com-
ing from Zion to remove ungodliness and taking
away sins is the firstcoming of Jesus,not the sec-
ond. The second coming is when Jesus brings
judgment,not forgiveness.
Sadly, you've judge me and pretty much said that I am not a Christian because I believe that Jesus has fulfilled the promises He swore to Abraham. Even the covenants which concerned the land of Israel were all conditional on the Jews obeying the commands of God. They didn't and thats why they were expelled from it. Even Joshua 21:43-45 says that God gave Israel "ALL" of the land He had sworn to give to their fathers, they possessed it and lived in it. Now, who are you going to believe? Joshua, or Hal Lindsey?
Steve
""The root of the tree is true Israel of Promise. And
ReplyDeletetrue Israel of Promise is not physical Israel, the
land or the natural descendants. True Israel is simply the term for God’s People—whoever they are""
Steve ,
You added on terms and dictates are replacement theology which has roots in Satanic religious pride.
The kind God promises to cut off from the natural ,(not true) branch of the Olive tree.
What perverted strain of americanized Christianity have you been seduced into ? Is it replacement Baptist ?
I can't find 'true' Israel in my bible.
You fail to understand that god has brought back natural Israel in UNBELIEF so He can complete HIS WORK.
You don't believe God ,you just pick and choose what your self will chooses to accept.
THIS OS MOST DANGEROUS Steve !!!
The word is clear that Jesus has brought His peole Israel back to their land in unbelief and He will remove the scales from their eyes and when they call upon the Lord ,they will see Hime whom they had pierced and so all Israel shall be saved.
I did not say you are not a Christian but you are blinded by religious pride as the 'religious'pharisee's were.
Pride has led you to apostacy.
You are just so full of darkness that you don't want to see God save His people Israel.
I urge you to flee from the religious pride denomination that ensnares you and repent ,because God WILL DO what you do not want Him to do. he is MERCIFUL and you are proud and blind as Jesus is not finshed with natural Israel as you are.
steve ,you keep mentioning Hal ??.
ReplyDeleteI don't follow men ,the blind guides of the blind ,I follow Jesus.
I harbor no ill will towards you .I do warn you out of love and the truth is so often a bitter pill.
Please wake up from the snare you have been led into by men of religious pride.
Marcel,
ReplyDeleteYou have said to me, . . .
"I did not say you are not a Christian but you are blinded by religious pride as the 'religious'pharisee's were. Pride has led you to apostacy."
and. . .
"You are just so full of darkness that you don't want to see God save His people Israel."
____________________________________
If "pride has led me to apostasy" and I am "so full of darkness" then I couldn't possibly be saved! Sadly, you have made this a salvation issue, and it isn't. Did Peter really say, "Believe in the Jews returning to Israel and you shall be saved? No, he said, "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved? Did the criminal next to Jesus on the cross need to believe in the things you are saying about Israel in order to be with Jesus that day in Paradise? I don't recall that discussion taking place on Golgatha.
Not once have you been able to refute the clear meaning of the scriptures that have been presented to you. Instead you've used phrases like "perverted strain of americanized Christianity", or "you are proud and blind" or " THIS OS MOST DANGEROUS." You have not provided any words coming from our Savior about this return to the land in unbelief that you speak of. I would think that Jesus would have mentioned it to the Jews after He told them that He was going to destroy their temple and remove them from the land. You say that they are back in the land in unbelief. But isn't that the reason they were evicted too? Weren't those the conditions dictated by the Lord to Moses? Of course they were yet you do not want to believe that.
You quoted Zechariah 12 when you said, "they will see Him whom they had pierced." Didn't that take place at the cross? Do you mean that when Jesus comes back in judgement with his saints that the Jews will then see Him in the air and then believe? From what I know to be true that will be too late then. Or all Gentiles would be given the same opportunity too, since God is no respecter of persons.
The reason I mentioned Hal Lindsey is because you have quotes from him on your website, and it is a proven fact that he is a false teacher, not only by the many predictions he has made and have not come to pass, but also by the fact he is on his 4th wife while the other 3 are still living. Yet it is the folks that you agree with that hold him in such high honor. He also shows his hate towards the Muslims as much as you do. Again, I can not find that type of thinking or teaching in the New Testament at all.
I used to belong to an evangelical church, but since they decided to go the way of big buildings, tithing, downplaying of missions around the world my wife and I joined a Christian & Missionary Alliance Church. While there I have not heard nor has anyone talked to me concerning the "end times". As you know as well as I do, it's not a very popular subject for most people. So it isn't a denomination that has "ensnared" me as you think. I read and study the Bible along with the Holy Spirit on my own now without the influence of those who happen to already have a preconceived theology which isn't warranted in the Bible.
You said that I would not want to see God save the Jews. It would give me great pleasure and joy to see the Jews come to faith in Jesus Christ. The same goes for the Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, etc. I have no favorites, as well as God has no favorites either, since He wants all to come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ
Steve
Marcel,
ReplyDeleteYou are fighting the good fight, brother. But I tell you from experience, do not waste further time. Let Steve get the last word, cuz even if you win, you do not win.
This is happening all over the idea that physical Israel is not of God, or He has cut off the Jews forever.
People do not understand what Ezek 36 says about the dry bones, how God restores them to their Land and THEN gives them a new heart and spirit. They are restored in unbelief, as you said.
Nor do they realize the implications that if God abandoned His own people whom He chose, because of unbelief, how much quicker and more severe will He cut off the ones grafted in?
How can the branch stand without the roots, which was Paul's point in Rom 11? But this is what they believe, that God will cut down the tree and leave the branches hanging in thin air. As Christians, our situation is less stable than the Jews is, as they at least have the excuse of blindness from God Himself. WE cannot claim such blindness, so what's our excuse?
It will all be resolved in Ezek 38/39, when God judges Gog and her allies with Divine Fire. God sees and hears. There will be NO WAY people can claim this theology after that event, when it's obvious to the world that God defended Israel in UNBELIEF and in their LAND. That is the purpose of that judgment, to shut people like this up for good. Just wait, Marcel.
He does it for His Name's sake, not cuz they are Jews. Why? Because He is tired of being called a LIAR.
Ezek 39: 25Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
(Note here is the part where He gives them 'another chance' Steve, FYI.)
Ezek 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
(The nations see this happen.)
Ezek 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them **unto their own land**, and have left none of them any more there.
(They are gathered to THEIR LAND. God said with His own lips that it is THEIR LAND. Call Him a liar again, if you wish.)
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
(This means His face was hidden, but not anymore. They do get 'another chance', Steve.)
**a friend**
Ezek 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
ReplyDeleteFor this verse to make sense, Israel would have have been secular before this day. It is on this day, and thereafter, that they turn back to God.
So they are in the Land in UNBELIEF, before God strikes their enemies in this judgment.
Think about that. God fights for them while they are still apart from Him. If HE takes their side, then WHO are we fighting when we say God hates them and is done with them? God Himself.
That is the point of this judgment, to destroy replacement theology once and for all. NO ONE will be able to say this anymore, when they see the God of Heaven step up to the plate like this.
And they will KNOW it is God:
Ezek 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: **and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.**
(NO mistaking this for a nuclear attack by MEN)
But first the world will line up against Israel. The reason is simple: God likes long odds, so they cannot take credit. So look for things to get worse for them first, but it is only temporary. It is so they are so weakened that when they win the next war, it will not be by their own power and strength.
**a friend**
BTW, the use of Jacob in this passage is a direct reference to Jews as Jews. Jacob was the father of the 12 tribes who became physical Israel.
ReplyDeleteSo no way to twist Jacob to mean some spiritual sense. Jacob means Jewish people as Jews. So God defends them AS JEWS, and in their PHYSICAL LAND.
Does this mean God is racist? Not as we understand racism. But it does mean He's making the point that HE stands behind them AS JEWS, when it's a matter of His Holy Name and ancient promises on the line.
**a friend**
The truth is the truth friend and you said it well ,loud and clear.
ReplyDeleteremember that you were at that time seperate from Christ,excluded from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of
promise,having no hope and without God in the world. Ephesians 2;12
Somewhere down the line ,Steve you were fed some bad and wrong teaching.
This little leaven is EXTREMELY Dangerous to your spiritual health.
So many like Steve cliam to follow Jesus ,but it is some jesus of their vain imagination as they pick and choose a religion to their liking.
They reject the clear word of God related to Israel and so their foundation is on unstable ground.
Steve ,what will you do with the scripture 'friend' has given to you ?
He that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Steve ,you're scattering away.
Satan managed to divide the early church from it's hebraic roots ,Jesus is bringing us back to Israel.
Because you love not the truth ,you are falling under God's strong delusion.
IF YOU WILL NOT FOLLOW JESUS' LEADING THEN YOU WILL BE SWALLOWED UP BY THE FALSE,APOSTATE HARLOT CHURCH OR CUT OFF BECAUSE OF YOUR SATAN INSPIRED ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE ISRAEL OF GOD.
Thats all I have to say to you on this most serious subject Steve .If you will not hear what has been siad then it is possible you hav e heardened your heart and will not listen even if Jesus spoke to you on this serious issue!
Marcel
It is fascinating how Israel, as a NATION, has become a stumbling block in OUR TIME. That alone shows me the Hand of God is involved. The odds these people have faced thru the centuries, and yet here they are, in our news daily. I would think some would take notice of that fact on it's own merit.
ReplyDeleteGod says He will bring them ONCE AGAIN to their Land. Inherent in that one statement is A:They were once in their land before this, and B: that Land must still exist geographically today.
So the nations, and many Christians, fight against God Himself, thinking they fight FOR Him. Only Satan himself can so deceive men to believe that to defy God is to support Him. That's like saying to kill a man is to save his life. Makes no sense.
The big stumbling block is America herself. Years of being told by the Pharisees that America is God's "True Israel" has made us arrogant enough to believe God will sit still and allow us to steal what is His. That is why we see us moving closer to massive war. It is to destroy America, ultimately.
God must destroy this stumbling block called America, because it has deceived both Jews and Christians. Jews think she is an ally seeking her best interests. Christians think God supports everything America does cuz it's so full of good 'Christians'.
With Christians such as we have, who couldn't care LESS what God has said in His word, the fact we make it thru one more day is an act of mercy. We certainly got away with much more than OT Israel did, because, again, they didn't know what we know, having the benefit of both Testaments and the hindsight of history.
We've been given much more, and we choose to remain ignorant, and fully expect the God of Heaven to be okay with that because we show up at church every week? Doesn't work that way. Keep your services and offerings. He'd rather have a faithful remnant who care about TRUTH. And it IS a remnant.
Marcel, I keep my eye on you, so do not be afraad to speak truth. You usually do not need any help.
**a friend**
Marcel,
ReplyDeleteYou obviously have not read one thing that I have written. I already said that I harbor no ill feelings towads the Jews. Nor do have bad feelings towards the Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, etc. They all need to go to the cross of Jesus. They all need to repent. All of them. Including the Jews. Do you even agree with that statement? I doubt it.
My goodness, I not only read the words of "a friend" (interesting how I am somehow "afraid" to give my name, yet "a friend" gets off easier since he agrees with you) but I used to believe in the very same thing "a friend" wrote. I don't anymore since it is based on a false presupposition. You look forward to a temple being built by the unbelieving Jews to begin sacrifices again which will somehow be accepted by God now even though He rejected them the last time they tried it. That is a complete rejection of the entire message of the cross. I agree with the scriptures that the Lord resides in my body now, which is the temple of the Holy Spirit. (1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you)
How sad. You believe that because I don't see a future for the Jews outside of the cross of Jesus Christ I am being heretical. Thank you. I will take that as a compliment along with Jesus and all of the apostles. Especially Paul. Why do you think he was hounded by the Jews his entire ministry? Because he told them the very thing I tried to tell you. And they hated him for it.
Steve
Steve, it's not about whether one has 'ill feelings' toward them or no. Great that you do not, but not the point at all.
ReplyDeleteThe point is you try to spiritualize a very physical promise. You've read the scriptures, I take it, that I gave you. Does it or does it not say 'their Land'? Where does it tie that Land grant, from God Himself, to any acceptance of Jesus? You will find no verse, OT or NT, that says that.
Everyone tries to tie the Land promise to acceptance of Christ, and there's NO scriptural support for this. That is calling God a liar. Nowhere in the bible does He say that His promise was conditional to that effect. But replacement theologists just blow that off. It will be to their peril when God moves.
That said, even so, a Jew can face God and say they were blinded by Him on purpose. He even admits that Himself. So, if God is just, you tell me how He'll get around that? That's like taking away the key and getting mad because they cannot get in the door. Is that just?
As far as the Temple, no one even mentioned that, so dunno where you are digging that up. Try to stick with the topic at hand.
Whether or not they build a Temple is not your problem, it's God's problem. We do the same thing, and think God finds it pleasing, so what's the bloody difference? If God does not dwell in a temple made with hands, why do you keep going to church?
Ezk 38/39 is there, like it or no. You choosing not to believe it just proves you really couldn't care less what the bible actually teaches, yet yell 'Jesus Jesus' like that makes it all okay. It does not. What one believes the bible teaches will dierctly affect how God deals with them in this critical time. So you admitted before God and men that you don't give a damn what He said. May your words hang you.
As far as being anonymous, Marcel will know exactly who I am if I told him, but I don't want him relying on me. He needs to stand with God, and he does that well without my help. I just have bumped into the same apostasy many times before, and it needed to be addressed in a way that called it what it was.
Jesus is not impressed by your words, Steve. Not when you use them to negate His. Don't work that way. Jesus IS God, and the words of God regarding Israel are by default also the words of Jesus(See John 1, the Word WAS God). So you are calling Jesus a liar, in essence.
BTW--Inherent in this apostasy is that their rejection was somehow a 'surprise' to God. Like He didn't know that it would happen.
ReplyDeleteSeems to me He predicted exacly that in Daniel 9. That was the plan all along, so He could offer redemption to the Gentiles.
As far as the Jews killing Him, if He was Perfect Sacrifice, who else but the High Priest could offer it? His death was the substance that the shadow of sacrifices pointed to.
So, is your God so inept and weak that He was taken by surprise that He would be rejected? After having predicted to the DAY when it would happen centuries earlier? In order for your theology to hold, that must be the basic assumption.
Also it assumes God cannot deal with His own people Himself, and needs our 'help'. If that is not arrogance, you tell me what is.
Seems either we worship different Gods, or you do not really understand the nature of the God of Israel. He's not a weak old man who 'needs our help' to fulfill His Word. As you said, He can raise children of Abraham from stones. What makes us think He cannot do the same thing to us? Who is doing who the favor here, as far as redemption?
**a friend**
Last point, then I'll consider the point made, and you can go your way and face the results, because every word a man speaks is recorded by angels, as you well know.
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of Israel, as a Land, in addition to being God's instrument of judgment, is also to show His faithfulness in physical matters.
In other words, if He breaks His promises regarding physical Israel, how then can He be trusted to keep them on spiritual, invisible things?
If He tells us He will restore and bless them in **their Land**, through no inherent goodness on their part, and does not do that, how then can we be sure He will keep His promise to redeem us, and that's something we cannot even SEE?
Israel is something we can SEE, a physical manifestation of a promise made ages ago.
In essence, Christians who teach and believe this are shooting off their own foot. They are saying God breaks His promises, yet in the same breath are confident He will keep them to them. Why do they believe that which they cannot see, but doubt that which they can?
This is why it says He does it for His Namesake. To NOT do it, is to admit being a liar, to cast doubt on His word, the bible, and to justify the apostate nature of modern Christianity, as well as legitimize Islam's claims to that Land. There's a lot more on the line than making you feel good, Steve. Really. The spiritual implications are major if God does not defend His Land and people.
So it's about HIS rep, bottom line. And the point of restoring them while in unbelief is to completely shoot a hole in the teaching that it's tied to accepting Jesus.
God is no respecter of persons, and He does not care what any high-minded preacher or author says. So if you are relying on them to be right on this, shoot yourself now, and save yourself a lot of suffering, because God shall exact a high price for this lie they teach. In fact, a nuclear price. That's how serious He is about this.
But don't take my word either. Watch the news. Any day now.
Take care...
**a friend**
Like I said earlier, both of you not only reject the conditional nature of the covenants, especially concerning the land spelled out in Dueteronomy and Leviticus, you've also made this issue a salvation one too. That is heretical. A false gospel. You can continue to believe as the Pharisees did and still do to this day. It never was about land.
ReplyDeleteJesus came to die for our sins, not establish Israel for the Jews as the kingdom of God.
Behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17)
Steve
So God IS a liar? He lied to Abraham, and He lied to His descendants. So that means He lied to us as well. Such a comfort. Really.
ReplyDeleteName the conditions, and cite the scriptures.
What part of 'perpetual possession' is unclear?
Why did Paul say the gifts and the promise are without repentance in Rom 11?
Do you think Jesus doesn't KNOW He came to die for our sins? Cuts to the question I asked before: Why do you act like it was some kind of surprise to God?
Lastly, explain why Israel defies all human efforts to put it out of existence. You are basically saying a tiny state of a few million Jews, out of favor with God mind you, is more powerful than God Himself.
God is too weak to wipe away a state that so many people are so sure has no right to exist, either in human or divine law? Why do you worship a God so weak that
A:He cannot tell the future
B:He cannot fight His own battles
C: He cannot flick away a nation the size of New Jersey.
What a weak, pathetic God you follow, dude. No wonder the world rejects the message. That is glory to Him?
You make absolutely NO sense, Steve, but that's okay. No one has to answer for you but you. Your words shall testify against you.
Marcel, this is what I was trying to tell you. Even if you prove the point with scripture, you get nowhere. Yet they claim to believe the bible in the next breath.
Their hearts are hardened beyond repentance, as you said in an earlier blog. Only God can correct this, and He will, but it'll be too late for these people when He does. The apostate church cannot be saved, at this point.
** a friend**
I did not ask friend to identify himself but I did ask you.
ReplyDeleteThat is my perogative.
God has a similar bias .
The mercy you show will be shown to you.
Your lack of compassion towards the Israel of God has been noted.
The same mercy and compassion the steve's of the world show to the least of Jesus's brethren ,the Jews ,will be shown to them.
You will recieve what you have given.
Steve ,you have failed the test of God as it relates to His compassion and mercy to His people Israel the people of the EVERLASTING book,the people of the EVERLATING promise and the people of the EVERLASTING Covenant.
If you truly served Jesus you would understand His mercy and compassion to Israle.
You have only exposed what is truly in your heart.
Islam is a lie and you hold these followers of satan in high esteem and the Jews in very low esteem.
One seeks to kill Jews ,the other want to live .
Who influenced you Steve ?
Marcel, you know exactly who. The Pharisee apostate synagogue of Satan churches of America. They've sold the truth and righteousness of God for a bowl of lentils(in the form of 501c3 tax exemption). Their leaders tell them black is white and up is down, sing a few lame songs, yell JESUS really loud, and that's where it ends.
ReplyDeleteNot one Christian in ten knows what God actually said about His nation, Israel. Of those, over half believe as dude does, that Land never entered into the picture, or that God suddenly tied it to repentance. Ask for a verse that says that, and they cannot find one, so they twist one that says the complete opposite, and use that.
Add in this notion that the best way to win Jews is to come in their face with this nasty, arrogant, self-centered, screw-you form of witnessing, and if I was a Jew, I would not want anything to DO with Jesus, or His followers.
Lastly, they worship their wicked king George. He is an idol if there ever was one. Will God spare us any more than He spared Israel when THEY worshipped idols? We seem to think so. Were supposed to KNOW better. Doesn't it go worse for those with light than those without?
Their limited understanding of God does not take into consideration the reality of God's judgment,His wrath upon sinful man.
ReplyDeleteIt's all built on the one side of God's nature ,His love,completly ignoring or rejection the other part of His nature ,justice.
There is no place for the full revelation of God in their flesh led religious walk.
There is no fear of God taught or understood.
The easy gospel won't get us thru the coming tribulation.
This is why they have no understanding or knowledge .
I was hopeing to get a name ,a source from Steve.
Was it a family history of anti-semitism that he never cut off from their roots ?
We know it springs from Satan and flows out to many crooked and bitter creeks.
My brother was doing so well until a 'good catholic friend 'of his poisoned his mind related to Israel and deciever,divider of Israel, George.
The thief and liar has also robbed Steve of what he once had because it was not rooted in his heart,just his head.
The 5013c preachers seem to be SILENT when it comes to speaking the truth as it relates to the beast.
They seem to have divided loyalties ?
marcel
It is the kind of thinking that Steve presented that resulted in so many "christians" in Germany and nations about closing their eyes to what was going on with the concentration/murder camps. It is because of the same thinking that so many horrible atrocities have been done in the name of "Christ" down through many, many centuries now. It seems to be the root of the thinking that Jimmy Carter has, too. It is dangerous ground.
ReplyDeletePaul said that the good news was to the Jew first and then to the nations. The first ones that trusted in Yeshua were of the nation of Israel. The "christianity" we know today is the perversion. Yeshua only died for the remission of our sins, not for the remission of the Torah or G-d's promises to Israel. He didn't transfer them, either. It is by His blood that we are grafted in and that we are partakers of the promises to the commonwealth of Israel. He has purposely blinded the eyes of Israel in part so that those of the nations could be grafted in. For that we need to be thankful and be humbled in our attitude to Israel.
Love and shalom,
Serena
Hi Serena ,
ReplyDeleteGod Bless you and your family.
you're so right.
Is pride Steve's sin or is it that he made a Lord ,an Idol out of his wife or some friend or preacher who convinced him to abandon his prior belief ?
For sure ,God is judging, seperating and exposing what is truly in the hearts of those who claim to serve and believe in our Jewish Messiah,
and it has begun in His own house.
marcel
2008-Jan-25 Fri 4:57 pm
ReplyDeleteStephen Patrick said....
".....Nowhere does Jesus or any of the apostles say that the Jews will get any other chance other than to believe in Jesus for their salvation. When He comes back at His return it is for judgement, not compassion on Israel of the flesh. He had compassions for them at the cross, which to this day they still mock."
Stephen ,
Jesus Christ, the *atonement sacrifice*.
Exodus 12:5
Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Leviticus 16:15
¶Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
16 And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Why do you think the bible uses these [following] specific words Stephen ?...
Matthew 27:25
Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
....or is that a 'stretch'?
A 'chosen', 'special' people.
1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Stephen Patrick said....
"......The love affair Christians have with those who hate Jesus and His words to this day and their hate towards our Arab brothers truly shows ones colors."
comment...... Stephen Patrick truly showing 'his colours'.
".....By the way, the cult of death for which you want me to escape already has your full support since you have no problem with killing people in Iraq and/or Israel even though it goes completely against Jesus to not hate nor to do no harm to anyone."
As much as W'ya made a serious miscalculation [going into Iraq, thinking muslims and democracy could be compatible], almost all of the killing in Iraq, Gaza, Judea, [and many ME nations] is moslem on moslem.
Not Christian / US on muslim.
Psalms 34:21
Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.
To Stephen Patrick, many of the Israelis i have met [on visits to Israel, many years ago] were [or seemed to be] 'righteous' people, even if they were not Christians.
And the Israelis i met did not sanction cutting off, of the heads of people they had 'religious' doctrinal differences with, nor sanction making 'un-believers' & apostates their *mortal* enemies.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.051
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.101
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260
All devout muslims believe that *they* are sanctioned, that they have a sanction from Allah, to kill non-muslims [who resist the spread of Sharia / ISLAM] !
ISLAM, is a doctrine which [firstly, promotes *internal* thuggery, but which also] sanctifies the plunder of other nations [cultures], including the stealing of their women and children.
......."our Arab brothers" ?
ISLAM is a part of *the curse* upon the earth [Adama???], the curse that is upon those who displease God.
Study ISLAM, the culture, the 'religion'.
ISLAM *is* an 'adversary', a liar, a 'deceiver', a 'destroyer' [......even to those within its own ranks!!!].
ISLAM is cursed, and ISLAM *is* a curse.
Every good thing which ISLAM touches, becomes desolate.
Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore *the curse* is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
'alah = the curse 'upon the earth' from God.
Strongs #
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H423&version=KJV
I agree with Stephen Patrick here....
"Don't you understand that just because one makes a claim to being "children of Abraham" does not make them "of Israel?" John the Baptist said that God could make a child of Abraham out of a stone, thereby eliminating race or lineage as an issue for who happens to be a child of Abraham. Children of the "flesh" are not the children of God. The children of the promise are."
It was not John the Baptist said, it was Jesus said, Matthew 3:9
Jeremiah 9:25
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised;
26 Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.
But nonetheless, i fully believe many from Judah will come to "....look upon me whom they have pierced."
Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 13:1 ¶In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Stephen Patrick said....
".......Jews are rejected by God and cut off for disobeying the
covenant. They are grafted back in by faith,just as
Gentiles are grafted on by faith. A Jew gets saved,
becomes God’s chosen,the same way as a Gentile
does:through faith in Christ,not physical descen-
dency. No physical or geopolitical Israel is here in
mind. True Israel is the faithful, not the physical.
Always was,always is,always will be."
True.
BUT.......
Israel are a 'firstfruits' [among the nations], and they are blessed.
The 'children of Israel' were God's chosen, to do God's work [of revealing 'types', in God's plan for redemption].
1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Judah is not lost, many in Judah will come to recognise their LORD [and thereby be redeemed].
The LORD has given us this promise.....
Joel 2:28
¶And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that *whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD* shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
I firmly believe [perhaps before the return of our LORD?] that the nation of Israel will have a 'Pentecost' [indwelling spirit of God] experience, in much the same way that post crucifixion Christians were blessed.
What will 'trigger' this 'Pentecost' event i cannot guess.
again....
Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 13:1 ¶In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: *but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes*.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Stephen Patrick said....
"God may very well
cause a major revival of faith in the Jewish com-
munity in the future, but he will not do it apart
from faith in Christ. He will not reinstitute cere-
monial laws of Jewish separation and with it,
physical land promise and Temple sacrifice,
because these have already been fulfilled in Christ
and there is no longer Jew or Gentile separation in
Christ. Once the old is gone, it is gone forever.
There is no returning."
Yes.
I agree.
No old covenant sacrifices.
Stephen Patrick said....
"He also shows his hate towards the Muslims as much as you do. Again, I can not find that type of thinking or teaching in the New Testament at all."
Proverbs 8:13
The *fear of the LORD is to hate evil*: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Luke 17:1
¶Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
**a friend** said....
"....It is fascinating how Israel, as a NATION, has become a stumbling block in OUR TIME. That alone shows me the Hand of God is involved. The odds these people have faced thru the centuries, and yet here they are, in our news daily. I would think some would take notice of that fact on it's own merit."
A chosen people, a special people....
Psalms 135:4
For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.
Stephen Patrick said....
"......You look forward to a temple being built by the unbelieving Jews to begin sacrifices again which will somehow be accepted by God...."
No, no, no, no, no, that was not mentioned!
**a friend** said....
"The purpose of Israel, as a Land, in addition to being God's instrument of judgment, is also to show His faithfulness in physical matters."
True.
Also, physical Israel is a teaching 'type', for the rest of us to take notice of.
As Israel ALWAYS has been.
Israel was, and is 'chosen', 'special'.
And until the 'last trump' sounds, it will remain so [i believe].
Marcel said...
I did not ask friend to identify himself but I did ask you.
That is my perogative.
God has a similar bias .
LOL
Walter
http://members.dodo.com.au/~wtt626/parables.html#much_more_going_on_in_our_lives_than_what_we_can_plainly_see